Oct 2, 2020
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Podcast Transcript:
Allen Sama:
All right there, passive traders, welcome to another edition of the
Option Genius Podcast. Today I'm here with my good friend, Justin
Boyum, who is a US Army veteran. He's also a very successful
businessman, speaker and a professional and executive coach. Being
a veteran himself, he does look out for the other veterans and
their families, and tries to help them find fulfilling careers,
create strong relationships, and live joyful lives. How are you
doing, Justin?
Justin Boyum:
Doing great, man.
Allen Sama:
What you've been up to lately?
Justin Boyum:
Lately, I have been doing some events, going around talking with
other veterans and professionals out there just trying to learn
more about how people are dealing with our new COVID era that we're
in and dealing with lockdowns and the different strategies that are
available to them to accelerate their careers or their
business.
Allen Sama:
Awesome, sweet. So, the reason I wanted to bring Justin on is
because as a veteran, he goes through and he's been trained in
making quick decisions. As we are traders, we need to have the
ability to take limited information and act on that. Some people
I've talked to in the past are like, "Well, I want to know that
everything is going to be perfectly exactly the way I needed to
before I make a trade." That's just not how it works. We need to
take imperfect information, we have to be okay with not knowing
everything, and that knowing that we might be wrong on our
assessment and still be able to adapt.
Allen Sama:
So, when I was talking to Justin, he was saying the same things. I
was like, "Man, this is some really good stuff." So when he talks
to his students and his clients, he talks about how to be high
performance and how to make those quick decisions and how to make
the decisions that will put you in the position that you can excel.
So, Justin, tell me something about the stuff that you learn in the
military, because you were active, right? You were in a war
zone.
Justin Boyum:
Right, I did a tour in Iraq during Iraqi Freedom in Basra. Yeah,
absolutely. So, realistically to talk about exactly what you
mentioned, right, being able to make quick decisions. I mean, one
of the first things that they teach their leaders and their
officers, and the sergeants is the worst decision that you can make
is no decision, right? So, they teach you to be able to really make
decisions. You got to use the information that you have in front of
you. That doesn't mean that every decision you make is always going
to work out perfectly, but the worst thing to do is to be
inaction.
Justin Boyum:
I think one of the more beautiful illustrations of this is in the
HBO series that they did for Band of Brothers. They showed the
Battle of Bastogne, which is very key battle in World War II. They
had a new lieutenant that was less decisive, that was going to lead
this effort initially. One, the soldiers already knew that too. So,
there was a lot of concern about like, "Are we going to be able to
handle this?" But sure enough, they go into action. That's when the
combat starts, and he completely freezes. It's causing them to take
on casualties and have all these issues. So, they send in another
captain from another unit just to run in there and take over
operations. He quickly figures out, "Where's everybody at? I've got
to make a decision, we get going."
Justin Boyum:
And then they go in, they actually complete this mission, which was
effectively you can really pinpoint that that's where the Allied
forces really won the war was winning this particular battle. It
was because somebody came in, and he just made decisions, right? It
wasn't always perfect. He did some crazy things in that. Go watch
the series, if you want to see it, or read the book. It's a
fantastic book. But I mean, realistically, the difference was that
he went and made decisions. He got into action. Yeah, there's going
to be risk that you have to take. You have to just do whatever...
You have to calculate that in your head quick enough. What's an
acceptable amount of risk? You got to go.
Justin Boyum:
But obviously, in a war effort, you've got to make that decision or
you're going to lose a [inaudible 00:04:21], right? So, there's a
little bit of a raised stakes there. But I think in general, when I
talk with my students, whether they're building a business,
following their careers, making more sales for their book of
business, wherever it is, they've got to be able to raise that
necessity to that warlike effort. If I don't go do this, these are
the potential results or lack of results I'm going to see. There
are a number of ways to attach meaning to that. But absolutely, you
got to be able to make decisions and go. The worst thing you can do
is do nothing.
Allen Sama:
Yeah. So, I mean, there's two things that you mentioned there. One
of the things is that we find that people, they want to be
successful. They want to make more money trading. They want to live
a better life and have a better lifestyle, but they are afraid to
get started. They're afraid to make that first step and get in,
because it's like, "Oh, I don't know this, and I don't know how to
do this. This is confusing to me."
Allen Sama:
And then there's that other person who's a little bit further down
the line. He has put on a trade, and he has followed the rules.
He's doing everything properly, but then the market, like the
market does or the stock, it doesn't cooperate. So, now, the person
doesn't know what to do and they're flustered. They're taking
losses. It's not the same as in a war zone. We're not dying here,
we're not getting hurt. But when you lose money, it feels the same
way.
Justin Boyum:
Well, you got to think about the ripple effects of that, of course,
too, right? What does that mean for your family? What does that
meant to the new people you're connected to? Right? What does that
keep you from being able to invest in, right? Maybe this person
that likes to invest in charities, that like sports things, like my
community, like the veteran community or what have you, right? You
not being able to perform at a high level, which is why I love to
talk about high performance, because in order to be successful at
anything, especially when you're dealing with something that can be
volatile like a market, you've got to really be very highly clear
and be able to take that bolt action, because there's real meaning
behind, "What if I don't do it?"
Justin Boyum:
I looked at this as, say I was somebody who was in cold call
sales. I don't know if you've been in cold calling before,
but you got to go and make 100 calls a day and maybe 5 of them will
pick up, right, depending on what persons you're calling or how
good you are with your outreach. But in general, when people are
first starting out, at least you're looking at like a 2 to 5%
success rate of even getting to talk to a human being that doesn't
hang up on you. That can be difficult, but we'll break that down to
say 20 calls. If you stopped at 19, that 20th call might be the
person that said yes. Whatever solution is, you're selling product
solution, right?
Justin Boyum:
By not making that next call, you've sacrificed that other person's
joy or their ability to get what they want. Who does that effect,
right? The people that are not near them, right? So, it's important
that you'd be able to do those things and be able to overcome that
fear of rejection or failure. You might get in them or "Oh, yeah, I
had this happen one time, and it didn't go well," right? Well, what
if I stopped cold calling after the first person that called me an
idiot on the phone and hung up on me, because I didn't like the way
that made me feel? Well, that kept me from making the next call,
where I could have served somebody at a very high level and gotten
them what they need to do, which not only helps them, but helps my
business, helps my family, and all the different ripple effects
that go from there.
Allen Sama:
Okay, so how would you walk somebody through that situation? So,
I'll try to put it back in the trading scenario. So, there's a guy
who is in a new environment, doing something new, not too
experience, hasn't been through the ups and downs before, but he
has made the jump. He's very scared, but he made the jump. He's
done some trades. But now all of a sudden, because like right now
what's going on in the stock market, the stock market has been
going up. For the last several years, it's just been going almost
straight up.
Allen Sama:
Now after COVID, we have some turbulence, we have a big market
drop. A lot of people got scared. But then even after that, the
market rallied back higher. Now everybody and their brother is
wanting to trade and buying stocks and telling, "Oh, I'm making so
much money." Well, that's great, but I mean, you're not doing it
properly. You're just jumping in and you're getting some quick
gains, because that's just what the market is doing, just going
straight up. It's easy to do right now. But when it turns and I do
believe it's going to turn pretty soon, there's a lot of uncertain
activities and events coming up, the election and all that.
Allen Sama:
So, let's say somebody has done that. They don't have that much
experience. They got in, they played some trades. They've made some
money. They're a little bit maybe overconfident, but now the trade
turns around. They're at a point where, "Okay, I need to make a
decision. Either I need to get out of my trade, or I need to buckle
down and stay in or I need to change my trade or adjust it
somehow." Can you walk them through, or do you have some steps that
they could take or some questions they could ask themselves?
Justin Boyum:
Right. So, I think that keys in. So, most people, it's what we've
been talking about as we've been going through this. There are
three major areas that cause most people to fail or quit at their
goals. The very first one I think that we've been talking around
now is fear. Fear is something that really drives a lot of decision
makings. Sometimes when we're in a place where we're operating with
fear, we tend to make bad decisions. We're going to make decisions
that don't really serve us definitely.
Allen Sama:
That's cool.
Justin Boyum:
Or you might just go quit, right? Hey, I got into this trading,
because I wanted to make 10K a month. I don't know what the average
person if they really commit to this tends to make, but let's say
they want to make 10K a month, allows me to quit my job, allows me
to really freelance my time better or manage my time to be able to
spend more time with my family or retire, whatever I'm going to do.
So, I would come back to what was that original goal that you had?
Because fear, sometimes it could be like, "Hey, I'm concerned about
what the outcome may be." Maybe it's not what I'm going to be
wanting, right? Maybe I go invest this money in trading, and I
actually end up losing money. Maybe it's going to be harder than I
expect.
Justin Boyum:
Maybe they're a little bit afraid of the process that's going to be
a little hard or maybe they've got some stories in their background
films like, "Well, I've always failed at some of these things or I
have a bad experience before. So, I'm not going to go and do this
again." Even if they've learned a strategy from someone like you
that says, "Yeah, this can be successful if you do it right." So
how do you overcome that fear? I think that you'd have to really go
back and attach that, have the clarity around why you're doing what
you're doing. Now, certainly, you want to follow a great strategy
and you want to have a really good, effective plan. But just like
in the military, right?
Justin Boyum:
I mean, sometimes we can have excellent plans. We've got the
greatest military in the world, because they've done a lot of
research. They make sure that they look at what's acceptable risk
to them and what we need to do to be okay with something. But even
with that, if you read any military book, stuff hits the fan,
right? You got to be able to deal with that and be able to make
decisions and move forward. Sometimes you're going to take some
losses along the way. Sometimes they can really work out great for
you.
Justin Boyum:
So, I would go back and look at somebody... So, in this case of if
I was going to work with somebody who's a trader and going, "Hey, I
really wanted to make this 10K a month, but I'm really afraid of
making this decision because the market is volatile." I'm like, "I
don't know if I want to get out of this." I said, "Okay, well, why
don't you write me a check for $10,000?" Because by not making the
decisions and staying with your commitment, that's what you're
doing. You just go ahead, write me that check for this month.
You'll tell your family that you wrote a check for $10,000 a year
or do you want to play, right?
Allen Sama:
Right. Yeah, because you're losing, you're leaving it on the table.
It's the same as not having it.
Justin Boyum:
I wasn't working with the trader, but I had that with somebody who
was a sales representative. He was a real estate guy. He's like,
"Hey, I wanted to be able to sell this much real estate so I could
make this amount of income." He was thinking like, "Man, this is
really hard. It's very competitive. I live in a major metro, so I
can throw a rock and hit another real estate agent right now." He's
like, "Man, I think maybe I need to go another direction." But the
problem is that that fear was going to follow him to whatever other
opportunity he was going to go to. So, it's about whether or not
did he really want to commit to this, he got into real estate
because he like to be able to help people, find that solution that
dream home and that lifestyle. Obviously, allows him to do his
lifestyle, manage the time that he wants to.
Justin Boyum:
But by saying, "I'm not sure about this," or "I'm not going to make
that decision, or "I might just get out of this altogether," I was
like, "Well, you said you want to make 10K a month, just go ahead
and write me that check. Go home and tell your wife that's what you
did today." Because that's what you're doing. I've been there too.
I've been in a place where I was in a sales role or I was trying to
start my business. That's my goals.
Justin Boyum:
By not taking action, I might as well just say, "That's what I need
to just give up today." That keeps me from being able to go to
donate to the charities that I think are important, being able to
take my kids on the vacations that they deserve, send them to
private school if I so choose or whatever, right? That's the ripple
effect of not making decisions, right? Sometimes you might step on
it, it might not work out what you want. But all you're going to
end up happening by getting out is that you have regrets. Oh, that
could have worked out.
Allen Sama:
Right. Yeah, yeah.
Justin Boyum:
Well, you want to be smart about it, right? Hey, look at the market
and look at the information that you have available to you and try
to make the best decisions. Yeah, but there's no guarantees,
certainly not in trading, just as much as there's no guarantees
that my business is going to just do anything, right? I got to go
perform at a level and do the things that are important, but
actually go out there and do it.
Allen Sama:
Yeah, right. Yeah, man. That's the hardest part. And then the thing
is that we teach all our people to do it in a way where you're
putting the odds in your favor. So, you're lining it up. So, you
have as much success built in before you get started, but there's
always that fear there. There's always that thing. So, I guess what
that means is like you bring it back to what the goal is, what the
why is, right? So, that overcomes that initial fear.
Justin Boyum:
I would agree with you about give yourself the best odds. They do
that in the military. In basic training, they talk about squad
tactics, right? They don't let you go and set schedule like an
operation unless we have three to one odds and personnel, right? If
you've got a 10-person unit and there's another 10-person unit that
you're going to go and ambush, that's not good odds. Then you're
like, "We're not taking that risk." Right? You can establish your
boundaries of what's good for you-
Allen Sama:
Right, what's acceptable.
Justin Boyum:
... and operate within that system. Okay, but if you said, "Hey, I
set this goal." Okay, well, then you need to adjust. Okay, well,
what kinds of trades am I going to make? Right? So, when I talked
to a real estate agent, I go, "Okay, well, you got to sell this
much inventory. Well, what if you just instead worked in a higher
level of real estate and you don't have to make as many sales?"
Right? Or "Hey, that's a complicated market." Okay, well, maybe you
can go into one that sell more inventory, right? But you have to
sell more to reach that same goal.
Justin Boyum:
There's different ways to do whichever one, but you've got to
figure out what's your framework that you're going to work within.
These are my boundaries. I think, in the military, we called that
the left and right limits, right? Okay, anything in this field
division is what I'm responsible for. Anything outside of that, I
don't go past that.
Allen Sama:
Interesting. Okay, that's cool. I like that, the left and right
limits. So, I'm going to focus on whatever is in front of me. So,
one of the things we have people do is we do a personality test and
a risk assessment. So, it's like how much risk am I good with? Am I
a risk taker, like a real gambler? Or am I just like, "Hey, I'm
super conservative. If I lose $1, I'm going to have a heart attack
thing"? So, based on that, then they decide what strategies we want
to work with them. So, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay. But
now, let's say we're in the midst of the battle. Things are not
going exactly as we planned. Like you said, the stuff is hitting
the fan. Now, what do I do to make the proper decision to help
myself?
Justin Boyum:
Well, I think ultimately, again, you're going to have to look at
the parameters of what's your framework, right? So, I love to use
this analogy all the time. Have you ever seen the movie
Moneyball?
Allen Sama:
Yeah.
Justin Boyum:
It's a baseball movie, right? We talked about basically, the order
to win a baseball game is I don't need to go get all this flashy
stuff, I just need to make sure that I score more than the other
team. The best way to do that is to make sure that my guys are
getting on base, right? So, basically, what you're looking at is
just more turns on base or more at bats or however you want to look
at that. So, I always just talk to my people of like if they're
looking to build a business, right? So, MLM, trading, whatever you
have to have, you have to get on base, right? Give yourself the
ultimate opportunity to do that and when. Look, there's military
operations where they have withdrawn, okay?
Justin Boyum:
There's been major motion pictures about it, like We Were Soldiers,
right? That was a battle that did not go well, right? They had to
figure out how they're going to get out of that and move on or go
do the next thing. Sometimes you have to make that assessment,
where this particular opportunity isn't working out. We need to cut
losses, and you need to be comfortable with that. What that means,
"Hey, okay, I might be taking a loss here," but what you don't do
is you let that stop you from getting back in the game. Hey, I got
to go to this next at bat.
Justin Boyum:
I'm sure anybody who's in... I keep going back to real estate,
because it's an easy analogy, because it's about investing and
stuff. But hey, I'm sure not every investment work out, right? So,
sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't go. You can do the best you
can to give yourself the best opportunity to make money. But at the
end of the day, when you're making the straight, again, more at
bats. The more you do within your framework, whatever kinds of
stocks that you use, you can do the backwards math on that and
what's it going to take the win, right? The Oakland A's in the
baseball didn't win every game. They just give themselves the best
chance to win every time.
Allen Sama:
For those you guys who are listening and have read the book, I did
not talk to Justin beforehand, because Justin, I talk about that as
one of the pillars, the Moneyball, getting on base?
Justin Boyum:
[crosstalk 00:18:21]. Yeah.
Allen Sama:
Because a lot of times... Yeah. Well, what we teach is making very
small conservative bets, but just winning over and over again. So,
our straitening strategy wins about 80%, 90% of the time. So, we're
not hitting homeruns. We're not trying to double, triple our money
every time, but we're putting on small, small bets. So, we're
making 10%, 10%, 10% in an easy way, in a way that doesn't take up
a lot of stress, a lot of time. We're just sitting back and making
10%. That really adds up to a lot of money.
Justin Boyum:
I mean, that's a fantastic strategy, right? I agree. Using the
Moneyball analogy, I'm glad that we see eye to eye there. I love
that, right? It's just a matter of you just put yourself in the
position to win. That's what the military does. They put themselves
in the best possible chance to succeed at admission, right? Back in
the World War II times, right, there was a lot different scenario.
But nowadays, even more, we go to a military operation, we expect
to win, right? It's because they've put in those parameters and
that framework to make sure that they'll win. Same thing, it sounds
like what you're teaching your students is, "Hey, give yourself the
best chance to win.
Justin Boyum:
And then hey, if something doesn't go well, that's okay. You got to
figure out how to cut your losses. You can stick it out. You can
determine that, but just be at peace with your decision. Don't let
that be the thing that holds you back." Right? Hey, I got rejected
at the bar by the pretty girl, it doesn't mean I'm not going to ask
another girl, right?
Allen Sama:
Right, right. Okay, so what it seems like I'm hearing you saying is
that in order to get in, to get to bat, you got to overcome that
initial inertia. You got to have a deeper meaning. I tell a lot of
people this. We ask them, "Why do you want to learn how to trade?"
They're like, "Oh, I want to make more money." It's never about the
money. There's always something deeper there. It's I want to be
more successful, I want to be respected. I want to take my family
on vacations or whatnot. So, that's the first step. The second
step, once you're in the game, once you're in the field and things
are happening, you have your... What was it, the Y and the Z or the
X and Y?
Justin Boyum:
You can say left and right limits.
Allen Sama:
Left and right limits. Okay, so you have your limits, you focus on
what's in front of you. You don't worry about all the noise,
because in trading, there's noise every single day. There's, "Oh,
Trump sent out a tweet," and this person is doing this and this
stock over here. This guy said this is going to happen." That guy
said that's going to happen. So, there's tons of noise. So, I like
that, the left and the right limits. You focus only on what's in
your field of vision. You don't worry about anything else. You have
your set trading plan or in your terminology, I believe you called
it... What was it when you mentioned that before they go into
battle, they have their...
Justin Boyum:
Well, they just have their acceptable risk, right?
Allen Sama:
Acceptable risk.
Justin Boyum:
Or their framework for what is... So, like I said, in that scenario
I used, you might be on a small squad and you're going through a
reconnaissance, right? You're going through this area? Oh, I see
this is an area that we might do an ambush. And then they go, and
they see that the enemy element that they're looking at is twice
the size of what they have. That's not an acceptable risk. You let
them go by. Right? Same thing with you're talking about. Hey, I'm
not taking huge risks. I'm taking more at bats at smaller risks.
So, I can protect myself long term, right? Which is a great
framework to use. It's the same thing, right? Hey, left and right
limits.
Justin Boyum:
Okay, so then I see the shiny object. Oh, this big stock might be
something big, but it's in a different market. Well, you better
determine, "Is that the thing that's going to be useful to you? Is
that helpful?" Is taking that risk moving you toward your goal or
using the same strategy to build over time so that you have that
protection that you're looking for, right? I would suggest
depending on what you're teaching your students or what their goals
are, hey, don't go off of that big, shiny object, right? Unless
you've done the research and you know that you're going to give
yourself the best chance to win, stick to what you've got there.
Stay at what's your acceptable amount of risk, right?
Allen Sama:
Right. So, it's not like-
Justin Boyum:
When one of my clients come to me and they said, they want to do
something crazy or they might think it's crazy to them. I'm like,
"Hey, that's not crazy. Let's talk else." Figure how we can make it
happen. We're going to figure out what's acceptable. Is this
serving your purpose? In the military writing concept, it always
starts with mission, right? Hey, this is the mission that we have.
Here's our situation that we're in. Here's how we're going to
execute that. Here's what we're going to do if something goes
wrong, right? It's all planned out, it's all structured in that way
again to give them the best chance to win. Or if they're going to
lose, they do it without losing a lot.
Allen Sama:
And then they have the right tools, [crosstalk 00:23:06].
Justin Boyum:
Of course, you got to have the right tools and resources and the
training in order to go do those things. [crosstalk 00:23:11]-
Allen Sama:
So, what was-
Justin Boyum:
... what's the situation and information? Let's do that.
Allen Sama:
What was your position in the army?
Justin Boyum:
So, I had various positions, so I was an officer. So, at the end of
the day, most officers are leaders, right? They're more management
style, more strategic thinking. So, technically, I was trained as a
logistics officer. So, it was really about moving equipment, making
sure people have what they needed, how do we move X equipment to Y
location. But I also held roles such as company command, where I
was dealing with over 200 people with various types of departments
and equipment and moving them to missions and goals here and there.
When I was deployed, I was an executive officer for an intel in
sustainment company.
Justin Boyum:
So, basically, dealing with all of the super secret squirrel
intelligence equipment, making sure it was functioning, and that
they had what they need to be able to support the mission in Iraq
and do their job. So, it was very unique. It was nothing I
expected. When you go in the military, you think you're trained for
one thing, and then you deal with something a little bit different.
So, you always got to be in that place of dealing with ambiguity. I
think the same thing applies outside of the military, we you've got
to be able to deal with things.
Justin Boyum:
Maybe you don't have a huge clear picture of it, but you operate
within your framework and the way that you like to structure
yourself. You're going to do better than you otherwise would have,
which is why I love to teach with my students that idea of high
performance. How do we structure you so that you can make sound,
clear decisions? You know exactly where you're headed, you know how
you're going to get there.
Allen Sama:
Okay, so let's go to there now, but how do you that? How do you
become high performance? How do you have huge success without all
the information?
Justin Boyum:
Sure. So, we can go back to the Moneyball thing. I think this
really works best and tied in with the military. So, the military
is really the best one in the world because there is almost nothing
that's a surprise. Our military doesn't do a lot of things that are
shocking, right? Sometimes maybe on a particular mission, something
could go a little bit different than we planned, but everything has
a structure. There's a standard operating procedure document for
everything within every unit all the way down to the individual
level. Here's how you're going to operate down to what you wear
every day, right?
Justin Boyum:
I wear this every day. I've got my canteen on one side. I've got my
ammunition on the other. So, everybody knows where everything is.
You've got a question how something works, there's a book or a
regulation to tell them how to do it, right? It's all very
systematized, right? They send you to boot camp first, right? The
reason they send you to boot camp first, we're going to send you
through the wringer of here's what it's like to be in the military,
make sure your mind is right.
Allen Sama:
Because you have to build that discipline, you got to be able
to-
Justin Boyum:
You have to have the discipline. You've got to be able to be
comfortable around firearms and dealing with... We always called it
embrace the suck. Sometimes you might be sleep deprived, you might
have to go through this. You've got to low crawl and get in the
dirt. You got to do all those things, you've got to have your mind
and your foundations right for that. Well, the same thing applies
out of the military, you've got to be highly structured. The world
highest performers in the world measured by study, anybody you
think of, they all demonstrate certain characteristics and habits
that allow them to succeed. It's not a super huge secret
about...
Justin Boyum:
Sometimes you might be lucky. You've invented the super widget that
nobody ever thought of. You might get the next iPhone that changes
everything. For most people, that's not going to potentially
happen. You might be creative and that's awesome if you are. But
the end of the day, you also still have to be able to perform at a
level that allows you to build a business around that and build
that influence. We start on a personal level.
Justin Boyum:
Again, we go back to clarity. High performers have demonstrated the
ability to seek tremendous amounts of clarity. They know
specifically what they want, why they want it and how they're going
to go get it. They're really connected to it. You go back to the
Simon Sinek stuff, Start With Why, right? You've got to be
connected to that, right?
Justin Boyum:
Second thing that high performing individuals are able to do,
they're able to generate energy. It takes a lot of energy to be a
successful person. Most people won't go do the things that they
need to do in order to perform at that consistency type of level,
right? If you're able to build your business, it might take you for
a little while to go 80 hours a week to go develop all the
marketing and everything and put everything in place. Can you
maintain the energy on that?
Justin Boyum:
Again, we get back to the three things that stop you. First one is
fear. Second one is fatigue. People will just stop because it's
hard either physically or mentally or emotionally. They'll fall
back to what's comfortable. While high performers are able to
generate energy over that. You imagine what you would be able to
do, Allen, if you had like five times the energy you do now,
right?
Allen Sama:
Yeah. So, by energy, you mean the food we eat, the way we sleep,
all that?
Justin Boyum:
Well, yeah, it's not just physical. It's mental, right? It's
emotional. Yeah. I mean, how much sleep are you getting? Well,
first things I usually talk about when someone's coming to me that
they can't reach their goals, I'm like, "How much sleep are you
getting?" Right? What are you eating? How much are you exercising?
Do you meditate? How do you renew? How do you maintain that level
of momentum? So, that you can overcome those times when it feels
like you don't want to do it, right? We've got like a
multi-billion-dollar industry for teaching people how to lose
weight. Secrets, do you know how to lose weight?
Allen Sama:
Yeah, everybody knows how to lose weight.
Justin Boyum:
Everybody knows how to lose weight, but you've got all these
personal trainers and coaches teaching people how to do it and
helping them do it because they can't generate that energy and that
mental focus themselves. That's what high performers can do, right?
And then the next part that we can use to overcome those challenges
is you got to be able to be productive. You've got to be able to
increase your productivity.
Allen Sama:
Okay, what do you mean by that?
Justin Boyum:
So, when we talk about being productive, sometimes it's like, "Oh,
I got to do all these things. I got to work harder." Well, not
necessarily. It's more or less, "Am I working on the things that
are moving me forward? Am I being productive on things that are
actually useful," right? Limit those distractions, stay in that
left and right limits? I talk to people and I'm like, "Okay, if you
got one project to do, let's figure out what the priorities are. If
there's anything on your list that doesn't actually move that
project forward, then it's not that important."
Allen Sama:
Right. So, this is working on the 80/20 or the one thing that-
Justin Boyum:
Yeah, 80/20 rule, however you want to say it. Yeah.
Allen Sama:
Okay, all right. So, we got three, right? We got know your why. We
got increase your energy, and then we got increase your
productivity by knowing what to focus on and ignoring everything
else and all the noise.
Justin Boyum:
Right. And then the next part and here's the thing is... I love
this for the military style of analogy here. High performers are
able to raise necessity. What do I mean by that? We could go back
to the war effort, right? It was highly necessary that they
completed that mission because people would die, right? We all
might be speaking German. That level of necessity. High performers
are able to go, "Hey, I need to complete this mission," "I need to
go build this business," "I need to go make those trades," "I need
to be highly focused in the way that I operate myself. Because if I
don't, my family is going to have to move out." or "I'm not going
to be able to go and serve the people that need my help." Lift that
up. It's connecting to the why still, but it's really attaching
that, this has to happen. There's no turning back.
Allen Sama:
So, this is like focusing on maybe the negative and burning all the
boats, saying, "I don't have a choice. My back is to the wall."
It's either do or die time.
Justin Boyum:
Yeah, and high performers are able to do that, forward their
projects, right? Because it might seem like, "Hey, if I don't make
this trade, that's not going to be the end of the world." Well, you
need to be able to show up like it would be.
Allen Sama:
Interesting. Cool. So, how long does it take to get all these steps
in place?
Justin Boyum:
Well, certainly depends what you want to focus on. You've got to
decide like, "What is it that's really holding me back?" We can
always do more of a lot of these things, but it's really about
putting together systems. Like military style, let me put structure
in place that allows me to put these things in as a habit that I
can repeat on process. I can be very deliberate with them. It's not
something that I just inherently have. Some people are a little bit
more risk averse than others, right?
Justin Boyum:
Some people are really able to go out there and be courageous and
go take bold action, just because that's in their nature. Some
people maybe aren't, but we can always be doing more. You can do it
as a habit, you can actually make it happen. It's not something
that you just inherently have all this, right? I will never be 6'10
and in the NBA. I can't control that. I can't control how old I am.
I can't control gender. I can control a lot of things, but I can
control how productive I am. I can control my sleep schedule, if my
kids allow it, right? But I can do a whole lot of things that I do
have control over, that's going to give me a way better chance of
getting on base than somebody else.
Allen Sama:
Makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
Justin Boyum:
Right. So, I mean, in general, I work with my clients, I have a
number of ways. I generally start new clients off on a 12-week
program where we implement all of these strategies and habits over
time and apply it towards what that goal is. Hey, I'm going to go
be a day trader and retire. I'm going to make this much money
because it's going to allow me to do X, Y, and Z. Great. I really
want to go and meet the love of my life and be the best husband and
father I could ever be. Great. Or achieve any goal, you've got to
be at a level where you're performing as a habit. Can you get lucky
and buy a lotto ticket? Sure, you can. Is that repeatable? Probably
not.
Allen Sama:
Which one would you say is the most important out of the four?
Justin Boyum:
Well, the four that we've mentioned so far-
Allen Sama:
Are there more? Do you have a lot more?
Justin Boyum:
I do, I have two more.
Allen Sama:
Okay. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
Justin Boyum:
I alluded to it, right? So, high performers also demonstrated a lot
of courage. They're able to step outside their comfort zone, right?
It's not comfortable to go do something brand new to you or be able
to continue to move forward when maybe it's not going so well. So,
you've got to figure out, "How can I attach again, go back to that
meeting? How can I show up as a more courageous self?" Right? And
then the last step, most high performers.... Again, this is
something that's obvious when you think about it, I think anyway,
but high performers are able to develop influence, right?
Justin Boyum:
How can I go get the people that are going to help me get where I
want to go, and I can bring them along with me? How can I pour into
the other people and continue to build my sphere of influence?
Think about anybody successful you've ever met, they didn't get
there by themselves? I don't care who they are. Even if they're one
of those people that seems more independent and reclusive, they got
somebody helping them to get to where they wanted to go.
Allen Sama:
Of course. Yeah. Nobody's an island.
Justin Boyum:
But I would say the number one reason and most people even if they
think that they're mostly clear, and I would be in this boat too,
is clarity. It starts there. That's why it's the first step on the
journey when I work with somebody and we refer back to it
throughout the entire program is that we've got to be able to seek
clarity and use it as a habit and continue to develop clarity.
Allen Sama:
Does that change over time, do you see from people?
Justin Boyum:
Well, some people start with different goals, of course. So, some
people might think that they want to operate in their space in a
certain way. And then over time, they mature, and they take
advantage, right? The clarity is what they make of it. There's no
like set answer, right? So, for instance, so if you told me that
you wanted to be a business owner, I wanted to be somebody who
really brings enthusiasm, I want to be seen as a leader, great,
that's awesome. Well, maybe over time, you realize that you're
really much more comfortable being somebody that works more
alongside people, right? More of a mentorship capacity rather than
that outward leader?
Justin Boyum:
Well, that's your goals, that's your way that you want to interact
in the space. That's not worse than being a leader, right? It's
just a different role. It's got to be what you're comfortable with,
right? So, a lot of people can have certain personality tests,
right? I don't know how I feel about personality test, because you
can change that picture. The picture is up to you, and it's what
you're comfortable with. So, you asked, "Can it change over time?"
Sure. But as long as we're highly clear and we're in it to serve
others, we're not trying to cut other people down for us to get
ahead, you're going to be okay. You're going to be great. I think
most people don't want to disparage other people on the road.
Allen Sama:
No, no, yeah.
Justin Boyum:
It's pretty rare that that's the person you're working with. It's
probably not going to be in my program.
Allen Sama:
Can you give me a couple of tips or some questions on how to find
that clarity?
Justin Boyum:
Sure. So, here's what I would suggest to anybody in your following.
You can do this, if you're listening to this later. Think about and
give yourself a space of a minute or two just to really get
centered. Close your eyes and think. I want you to start thinking
about three words that describe the best of who you are. These are
words that they may be the best of who you are now or who you would
like to be.
Justin Boyum:
If I'm going to ask Allen, I said, "Hey, Allen, tell me about
Justin in three words," these are the three words they say and
you'd be proud to have someone say that, right? If I go, "Oh, man,
I really love to be joyful. I really love to be a leader. I really
love to be honest." That's just for an example, right? And then let
those three words really drive you and all of your interactions and
what you do. So, if what you're doing is not congruent with the
three words that you picked, then maybe you shouldn't be doing
that.
Allen Sama:
Okay, interesting. Three words. So, what are your three words?
Justin Boyum:
Well, mine always tend to change. So, my three words, I don't like
sharing them as much, because I don't want people to think
[crosstalk 00:37:48].
Allen Sama:
Okay, give me one of your clients. You don't have to say the name
or anything.
Justin Boyum:
No, no, I'll share mine. But again, I would love it if you
definitely go do this exercise for you, because there's great
words. One of mine is bold. I love using bold. And true and leader.
They're meaningful to me, because I fancy myself a little bit more
of an introvert-
Allen Sama:
Okay, me too, yeah.
Justin Boyum:
... originally. I don't know if that comes across to people or not,
but I struggled, like a lot of people, with getting up and speaking
in front of people and directing and being seen as that person that
people who go to, but that's what I wanted to be and I knew that
could be that. So, by embodying that I'm going to be bold here. It
gives me that that boost of confidence and being able to be...
Again, it gives you that clarity just knowing who you want to
be.
Justin Boyum:
When I first started one of my first businesses, I used networking,
like face-to-face networking as one of the ways that I built that
business, or going to a room of strangers to go ask them to support
my business or whatever would have been something crazy to me when
I was younger, right? It's not something I would use to. But before
I go in, I go, "Bold, right? I'm bold. I'm a leader. I'm true."
Then conversations are just easier, right? Because I'm going to go
be who I meant to be. This is the best version of me.
Allen Sama:
Okay, cool. And then do repeat it to yourself, you put it on the
wall?
Justin Boyum:
So, I would recommend to anybody that I talk, I'll do strategy
sessions with someone, gets on the phone, we might do this
exercise. I always say, "Hey, look, we've all got a smartphone,
we're all using them for our alarms. Go set yourself an alarm for
10:00 AM with those three words." Hey, you look at it and says,
"Oh, yeah, I'm going to be bold today." I pick 10:00 AM. It's
arbitrary. Some people have different battle rhythms, but 10:00 AM
is right for lunchtime. You might be starting to past your peak
productivity for the day. Maybe there's another time for you,
whatever time you know you normally run out of that energy. Hey,
set yourself an alarm that reminds you, put it on the wall, put it
somewhere, right?
Justin Boyum:
Share it with your family. Tell them, "This is who I want to be,"
right? Even if it's something crazy like, "Hey, before I've never
really been enthusiastic," right? That's one of your words, right?
"Well, I'm going to start being that way," right? Tell people,
"This is who I am." You don't have to, right? It's your words,
whatever you're comfortable with. Especially if have a spouse, go
tell them, right? Tell them the same exercise. Hey, what do you
want to be, right? You get a lot of energy and clarity out of
that.
Allen Sama:
Okay, yeah. I mean, if you tell other people, then if you're not
behaving that way, they can actually help you. Or if they tease you
about it, then that'll help you as well either. Either way, you get
the motivation.
Justin Boyum:
Not everybody's comfortable sharing with that. I've had people on
the phone who were they're a little bit more close to the chest. It
takes them some time. Now, they're your words. I mean, ultimately,
you get to say, "Hey, this is who I want to be." You chose that. I
never judge anybody for the words that they chose, especially if
most people are choosing very inspirational words for them. They
can change over time, right? Maybe next week, you call me in with a
different word, because I've had to tweak in the way that I want to
operate. You can change it week to week, year to year, however, you
want to do it, or you can stay with them. It depends on what you
want it to be for you, right? Because like I said, we can change
that picture.
Allen Sama:
Yeah, I mean, you asked that question. I'm thinking to myself, "I
have no clue what my words were." I don't know.
Justin Boyum:
Maybe we should offline, we can sit there, and we can do that
exercise. We can come up with it. It's not as hard as you think. I
think most people once they have that space, you give yourself a
few minutes to think and then they just rolls off. Just go what's
the first thing that comes to mind? That's it. You don't have to
overthink it, right? I had one person who had one... I can't
remember the three words, but they were all relatively around
integrity. So, he was a little bit like, " This seems like the same
word. They were not different." I was like, "Hey, these were the
ones that are meaningful to you," right? There's a little bit of an
angle that you can certainly attach meaning. At the same time, I
said, "Hey, these are your words, right? If you want to change,
when you can."
Allen Sama:
Yeah. I know for me, it's not going to be that hard to come up with
the words, but it is going to be to keep coming back to them and
keep remembering them. Because whenever I have a setback, all of
the self-help stuff and all the motivational stuff, all that stuff,
I just chuck it out the window. I'm going to go into my little
hole. I'm going to feel bad for my job for three days, just leave
me alone.
Justin Boyum:
[crosstalk 00:42:13] personal example, right? That can be easy,
right? I go into an event and I'm a coach, right? I want to help
people. I want to be able to bring someone into my practice that I
can really serve. I go through the process of meeting them at the
event. Hey, this is my business card, this is cool. We schedule a
call. I go, "Hey, let's book a call, let's talk after this." They
go, "No." Well, I could let that affect me or I could go, "Bold,
true, leader." Move on to the next person, right? Or address that
maybe there's something I've done wrong or whatever. But if I allow
myself to be disconnected from that clarity, then what am I doing?
I'm not making the next call. I'm not serving the next person I can
serve, right?
Allen Sama:
Oh, I should do that.
Justin Boyum:
I'm not selling the next house. I'm not making the next trade
that's going to allow me to take care of my family.
Allen Sama:
Right, exactly.
Justin Boyum:
Or somebody to take care of their family, right? So, yeah, I could
be disconnected that way, I can allow those things to help me. But
if I'm going to go back to my words and do this, again, as a habit,
as a system, as a structure. Put it on the wall if that's where you
need it. Have an alarm on your phone, make it the background.
Allen Sama:
Right. Because not only does it help you get started, but then like
you said when there is a setback, when there is a rejection of
[inaudible 00:43:26], anything that is a pebble in the way and you
trip over it, you can decide to go the negative route or you can
decide, "Hey, let me focus on what I want, one of my words." And it
brings you almost instantaneously back to what's important.
Justin Boyum:
All the habits, of course, are important. They're almost required
for anybody who's going to be successful. But for me, what was the
game changer for me when I started focusing on it was clarity. You
can always fall back on clarity, right? Some people need the
energy, right? The energy is what drives them. Some people need the
productivity. They know that they're making the progress. Some
people need to be able to raise that necessity or be more
courageous, right? But for me, clarity is one of my favorite
topics, because I can fall back on that. Maybe I'm not being
productive today, but I can go, "I said I'm going to be a leader
today."
Allen Sama:
Right. You have that cognitive dissidence there as well, because
you're telling yourself something and then you don't act like that.
Your brain is naturally being like, "Hey, there's something wrong
here." You don't feel easy until you fixed it, until you act the
way that you said you're going to act.
Justin Boyum:
Yeah, that's what it's all about. Again, that's the part. Again,
that's why I make it basically as the first step into the program.
When I'm working with somebody, I'm going to make sure that you're
highly clear. So, you're going to come out of my practice depending
on what programs you go through, I'm going to make sure you clear.
So, we're going to have that after talking to me.
Allen Sama:
Sweet, sweet, sweet. So, what type of people do you help?
Justin Boyum:
So, in general, I work with military veterans who are getting out
of active duty. That's a really scary time. I was that way back in
2012, 2013. I don't know what I'm going to go do. I only had
military experience, right? I was in college. So, I had some
college type jobs, but nothing serious. So, I'm coming out with
military experience. I don't know how to translate. I know what I'm
going to do. I don't know how to interview, right? In the military,
especially as an officer, they try to train you not to talk about
yourself, right? It's really more mission and people focused. All
of a sudden, you're going to go into an interview and talk about
how great you are, just a little bit odd.
Justin Boyum:
That's not knocking the interview process, you had to do it for a
reason. But it takes that like, "How can I be very clear?" Right?
You could be like me and you think you're clear on something,
because maybe you've done some research. Oh, this translates from
my experience really well. But you're not clear about what maybe
your values are or what that job is going to allow you to go do or
what's going to be important to you when you're there. You're like
me, and even though I got a great opportunity, I wasn't happy
there, right? There was a different set of values and the way they
managed people. It just wasn't the right fit. I was miserable. Even
though I had a great job for a great company with great people
working there, it was just a different mindset.
Justin Boyum:
So, I love to help people that are going through that phase of
transitions. Military, maybe you think about changing jobs. Maybe
you think about getting into the trading, right? But you got to be
highly clear on what you want to go do. You got to have the system
that's going to allow you to be successful, right? That's what I
love about my program is because we can talk about a very specific
strategy for you to go get what you want, maybe your day-to-day
trading, but you're going to have to use the habits that I'm
talking about if you actually want to get there.
Justin Boyum:
I can have map up for you right now on this board how we're going
to make a million dollars in the next 12 months. Most people won't
have the habits and structure in place to actually go do the things
that allow them to do it. So, that's what the power of my program
is, it starts with clarity.
Allen Sama:
Sweet, sweet, sweet.
Justin Boyum:
So, I work again in veteran space. I mean, truthfully,
professionals, business owners, entrepreneurs, anybody that's going
to need that level of structure and they're going to support,
they're going to need someone there with them that they can share
things with. Because sometimes I might want to go do this goal, but
my friends... They might think that's weird, right?
Justin Boyum:
You might be like me, where I was running a trade business. I said,
"Hey, I want to go be a coach." That might be seemed weird to some
people, right? Because they're comfortable with where you are, but
when you're working with a coach, I said like, "Hey, whatever you
want to do..." Like I said earlier, "... let's go see if how we can
make that happen. Is that realistic? Is that something you want? Is
that connected with your mission? What is your mission? Do we need
to define that? Great, let's do it."
Justin Boyum:
That's the power of working with the high performance, because
you're going to have that clarity. You're going to have that
camaraderie of having somebody that you can be open and honest with
that's not going to tell you you're dumb, right? There's nothing as
too great. Hey, I've been making $50,000 a year working the line
for last 10 years. I want to make a million dollars next year.
Okay, great, how we're going to do that? Let's work through it.
Allen Sama:
Right. Okay. How do people find out about you?
Justin Boyum:
Well, they can certainly follow me on Facebook or Instagram. Charge
Forward is the handle. So, C-H-A-R-G-E Forward. Or you can go to my
website, www.thechargeforward.com. So, that's T-H-E
chargeforward.com. You're able to follow me there. I have a blog. I
put out content. It connects to all my other social media pages.
So, you can find all my content there. Certainly, if it's something
that I can help you with, I'd be happy to hop on a quick
high-performance attraction call. If you've got something that
you're struggling with on a goal and you just need some help and
support, I'll put you in a totally sales free zone where if I can
get you moving in the right direction, I'm happy to do that. You
can schedule that call there at the website.
Allen Sama:
Awesome. Great. All right. Well, Justin, I appreciate your time. I
appreciate your service. Thank you so much for all you do. Thanks
for helping out our military folks, because yeah, what you're
saying is that they go through boot camp. They're normal people
first, I guess. They go through boot camp. They get trained in a
certain way to think and behave. And then they're dropped back into
the real world. It's like a whole different set of rules, and then
they almost have to have boot camp to reassimilate into the normal
world.
Justin Boyum:
It'd be like somebody who was raised in Texas, and they dropped
them into Paris, France tomorrow. Some people speak English, but
it's different, right? Maybe the UK is a better example, because
they speak English, but it's different, right? The cues are
different. It's not that you can't perform well. It's going to be
weird and difficult. It can be hard.
Allen Sama:
Yeah, exactly.
Justin Boyum:
Yeah, absolutely.
Allen Sama:
Appreciate it.
Justin Boyum:
Thanks for letting me on, by the way. Thank you, Allen, as well for
what you do, serving your audience and helping people get and
achieve their goals by using your practice and strategies through
trading, which is awesome. I love Moneyball. If anybody is using
Moneyball as an example, I think that's great. I love that. I'm a
numbers guy myself.
Allen Sama:
Awesome. Cool. All right, Justin. Thank you so much for stopping
by.
Justin Boyum:
All right. Thanks.
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