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The Option Genius Podcast: Options Trading For Income and Growth

Jan 12, 2022

Allen: All right, welcome, everybody. Today I have a very special friend with me, I want to let you know that she is a..I mean, she's been doing amazing, since she got started with trading with us. And the thing that stood out for me was that when she, she was going through our credit spread Mastery program, she did not attend any of the coaching calls, which most of the students think that's like the the highlight of it, because it's one on one coaching, but she did not attend any of them. And it was because that she works a full time job. And you know, at a very stressful I guess, manner of stressful, but it's a very important job for the government. And so she was working full time, she takes care of her family. So she does not like she had a lot of free time to do this stuff. And she's also in a different time zone in Hawaii. So take all those three things together. And it's like, wow, if she can do it, you know, I think everyone that has excuses, it just goes out the window. And I think it goes to show that when you want to do something when you really have a desire that you can figure it out, and then she's gonna tell you how well she did. But you know, I'm very proud of her. She did amazing. And so with that, you know, Lori, aloha.

Lori: Thank you for inviting me here.

Allen: No, it's wonderful. I'm glad to get you on here. You know, for whatever reason, trading is more male-dominated. And so whenever we see a female in it, it's like, wow, this is awesome. You know, and I think we need more females in the in the trading space. And we do, I do find it that females do trade better than men for whatever reason. You know, like, like, I remember when I was learning how to trade originally, and I got some back testing software. And then my wife would come and ask me, Hey, what are you doing? And I'm like, Oh, look, I'm doing this strategy now. And she, she'd be like, oh, you should do this. And this, and I'd look at her. I'm like, "you know, I just spent like the whole, you know, six weeks learning this thing, and you just come and you just go Blah Blah Blah and tell me what to do. No, it doesn't work that way". And she goes, 'Oh, yeah, let's try it". And I'm like, What do you mean? She goes, Well, you have a testing software, right? I'm like, yeah, she goes, all right. You test it your way, all test it my way. And because I had explained it to her, and I was like, you know, this is a like, I don't know what I think was a credit spread. I was like, you know, this is the trade and we want to just pick where the stock is not gonna go. You know, we don't have to pick where it's going. We have to pick where it's not going, and then make a decent profit. So I think that was the basic intro I gave her. And we tested it for like six months or so. And she beat the pants off of me. And she's like, Oh, this is easy. I don't understand why you hate it. Why can't you make more money doing it? Oh, my God, I was about to cry. But no, but still. So Lori, is your, are you married? I've never asked you before.

Lori: Yes, I am. We kind of celebrated our 19th anniversary.

Allen: Oh, awesome. Congratulations. Yeah, you don't look that old. Does your husband trade?

Lori: Oh, he is actually a financial advisor. But oh, yeah. But his is mostly, you know, mutual funds. You know, trying to preserve capital for his clients and everything. And I wanted to do something that, you know, generated, you know, consistent cash flow, something that eventually would replace my, you know, salary that I get from my 9-5 job.

Allen: Right. So what does he think about options in the way you're trading?

Lori: He doesn't want to touch options. You know, didn't want to, you know, hey, don't go Forex, don't do options. Don't do crypto, you know, he's, he's pretty much the traditional, hey, let's do mutual funds. He doesn't even do individual stocks, either. It's more of a whole portfolio type of approach that he takes.

Allen: Oh, wow. So yes, I can imagine the discussions you guys have had in the past. It's interesting, because when we do have a lot of clients, and they come in, and they're like, Yeah, you know, my wife really, really, she hates this stuff. Like, she won't let me do it. Or she, she doesn't she lets me do it. But you know, like, it wasn't an easy conversation. Oh, wow. Okay. So let's just start off, you know, how have you been trading? How's it going? How your results?

Lori: Actually, it was because of your program. It's the first time I've been consistently making money. And I think a lot of it is because you provide the structure. And you know, when you were talking about, hey, there's not many women, and a lot of times they're better traders. I kind of equated my husband when he coaches basketball with the kids and stuff. He said, he always found that the girls did better than the boys because the girls would focus and master the fundamentals more than the boys would. The boys always want to do the trick shots and you know, be all fancy and I think that's what helps you teach the fundamentals of "hey, what to look for, step by step". And that's all I have to do is I just have to follow it. I don't have to try and come up with it. You know, fancy, you know things, it's just simple things to follow. And if I can follow it, I can make money. So..

Allen: That's awesome how long you been trading?

Lori: I actually was 30 years ago, I got into mutual funds. So I think when IRAs first started, I was in the Air Force. And people who were higher ranking than me, were giving me advice and saying, hey, you need to start putting away money invest, do your maximum at that time thing was 1500 to 2000 A year into your IRA. And that's where I started, I was terrified to pick the worst mutual funds that didn't make (inaudible) money. And then I think probably maybe 10-15 years later, I just started saying, Hey, let's go do stocks, I didn't fare any better in stocks, I tried options. At one point, you know, I put aside a little bit of money, I lost it all. Because I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't have anybody to, you know, teach me how to do anything. I was just trying to, I was just kind of, you know, muddling my way through and not getting anywhere. So I found the value of finding somebody that can help me, you know, teach me the ropes. And I tried alert systems. And I don't know, I maybe I just kept picking the wrong alerts and I end losing money on the alerts. So..

Allen: But you kept trying.

Lori: I kept trying, I see people making money. So if other people can do it, there's got to be a way for me to do it. And so, 30 years later on, I'm finally starting to make money.

Allen: Wow. Better late than never I guess. Oh, yeah. You know, some people ask me, oh, can I start this? And can I, you know, can I start making money online or trading? And, you know, I got six months, I'm like, yeah, maybe we'll try to get you there. But yeah, usually it takes longer. But, but that's so but okay, so you're going from a place of where you've tried all these different things, and nothing really seems to be working. And then you go into what we do is like selling options. And that's a little bit more, I don't know, if it's more advanced, but people are more intimidated by that. So how did you make that leap?

Lori: I knew you could make more money with Options just because you could leverage what, cuz I have a, you know, small account, you know, less than 10,000. And so I wanted something that was, I could generate money faster, and I knew options was the way to do it. But you know, you also hear on the everybody saying, hey, well, options is risky. And so it wasn't until I heard about yours, where you say, "well, you can do it safely". And so I just, I thought I'd give it a try. And listening to you know, starting off with the passive trading formula, kind of was the first introduction. And I said, yeah, it all makes sense. And so I, I just went all in with the credit spread Mastery program.

Allen: Okay. And so what have your trading results been? Since you started that?

Lori: Gosh, I didn't do the calculations, but I do have over, I think it's at least 80% win rate. The challenge came in when, you know, my first 20, something trades were all winners, and I had a loser, and I didn't follow your rules on cutting my losses. So that one, you know, kind of really messed up my overall profit. But it kind of highlighted. The other factor that I have to really take into account is the psychology of trading. And I just started reading a book on trading mindfully. And it highlighted all the things that I was doing, I would get overconfident and I wasn't, you know, things, hey, I don't really have to follow that rule or you know, kind of, and so then the losses came and then I get hesitant. Oh, my and that was a huge loss and you know, kind of weary about getting back in. So I kind of had to take a step back, and then I'm back in and I'm doing a lot better now. You know, I'm cutting my losses when I should be cutting my losses. So I think 2022 I think is going to be a really good year. Now that I'm starting to, you know, see what's I can do, where my weaknesses are and then building from there.

Allen: Okay, good. So the name of that book is "trading mindfully"?

Lori: I think it was "Trade Mindfully"

Allen: "Trade Mindfully"

Lori: Yeah. .

Allen: Yeah, I'll take a look at that. Because, you know, like you were talking about basketball, you got the fundamentals. And you proved it because like you said, you did over 20 trades, or maybe you did the first 20 And then you had one loser. But I remember during our class, you had done well over 30 trades, and you only had like one loss. So I was like, Wow, you did better than I did in that in that three month timeframe. So I was like, okay, she's doing maybe I need to learn from her. So that was really cool, you know? And then since then, okay, so you're still winning. But the the issue was that you just didn't let you just didn't cover the loss fast enough. And so maybe that's why the..

Lori: Yeah, and I had a hard time, you know, after the class, we just started talking about scaling up, it's just really hard for me to pull that trigger of scaling up. So you know, I'm still doing the, you know, I'm just starting now okay, let's, let's go up to, you know, two contracts, or, you know, three, depending on how big the spread is. So I'm starting to feel a little bit more comfortable with the bigger trades.

Allen: Cool, and what strategies do you use?

Lori: So, right now, mostly, I'm focusing on the credit spread mastery, I'm starting since you know, I'm getting closer to retirement, I'm starting to look at maybe getting some dividend paying stocks into my portfolio.

Allen: Okay

Lori: And some other long term consistent things. But I, I would actually like to get some, you know, now that I'm starting to get that baseline, I'd like to start getting into something more like swing trading, where I have the ability to kind of take advantage of the movements that in the stock market to make even more money.

Allen: Okay, cool. Yeah. You know, the, the idea there were like, so you're talking about, okay, so you're doing credit spreads, you're also going to be, you know, buying dividend stocks. So that's like the second strategy, and then swing trading would be a third strategy. So I would probably advise you maybe to focus on one at a time, you know, you got the credit spreads under your belt. But if we can get a little bit higher in contracts, you'll feel a little bit more comfortable. And then you already have the the passive trading formula program where we all we talk about, you know, the dividend stocks and the covered calls the naked puts, that'll give you a good foundation. And then from time to time, when you do see an opportunity. If one of your favorite stocks is really has dipped below, then definitely you can add the swing trading to that, but like, from what you're telling me, I don't want you to jump didn't get too much and get just overwhelmed and confused about oh, what decision you know how well I use this rule over here and all that kind of thing. So But definitely, you have the ability. And then if you have more time, I'm sure you'll be able to pick it up really quickly. So So in terms of you said you had a $10,000 account. So how well are you up this year, down this year? Do you have an idea?

Lori: I'm up this year? Um,

Allen: About what percentage?

Lori: I am up about 10 15% I think this year,

Allen: Okay. And that's even after giving most of it back, right? Because you said you had some a couple big losses that you didn't stop. Yeah. So okay. Because when you were when you were in the class, and you know, you were hitting it, so if you do 30 trades or whatever, and you only have one or two losses, then you must have had a really big loss. So, but yeah, so now you're working on the mental aspect. And that's, that's really crucial, especially for scaling, because I think when it comes to scaling, that's the biggest, because otherwise, it's just numbers, you know, so if I'm trading one, or if I'm trading zero, or 10, is just an extra zero, the trade that I'm looking for is the same, we do the same type of work for that the strategies the same, the return that we're looking for is going to be the same percentage wise. It's just the seeing those extra digits that kind of gets us like, Oh, my God, oh, my God, you know, you're you're a little bit more careful. You're watching it, you might be overtrading. So I like it going from how many trades do you do at one time?

Lori: I don't have more than six going at one time. Okay. And I try to spread it out. You know, no, more than a couple every week. I'm getting stuff in there.

Allen: Okay. Yeah. So, you know, have you gotten yet from one to or?

Lori: Yes, I have. Okay. And that just happened over the last few months.

Allen: Okay. And then so now we're looking at what two to three, three to two to four?

Lori: Yeah, maybe two to three.

Allen: Okay. Good. I mean, see that, like, you know, we tell everybody that once you learn this skill? I mean, you can use it for the next 2030 years. Yeah. Right. So it's, we're not really in a rush to learn it. We're in a, we want to get consistent, and we want to get to the point where we're comfortable. And then once we understand it, it I mean, the numbers they compound so fast, and you've seen it, you know, you've seen it in your own accounts that, yeah, you just do it with and you have a regular just consistency. If you start doing 40 - 50 more percent a year. I mean, those numbers get really big really fast so you don't really need to like Oh, my I got to get it right now. You know, there's no rush. And I know..

Lori: There's gonna be another stock that will meet the criteria that'll fit the pattern.

Allen: Yep. Like when, you know, I see some of these ads, you know, from the other gurus. They're like, Oh, yeah, you gotta buy this one stock by this date and this thing is going to happen - are you gonna miss it? I was like, well, you know, I mean, I could just go into the market, and every other week, there's another trade and there's 1000s of them available. So we don't ever have to have that scarcity mindset where it's like, Okay, I'm going to miss it. No, we got time, you know, every month is a new cycle, every week is a new cycle. And there's 1000s of stocks that fit our criteria that we could be trading on. So it's not like there's anything that we're gonna be missing out on. So, you know, even like, if you go, hey, you know, the holiday breaks are coming up, I'm just gonna take my money off the table and not trade for a little bit. And not go risking, because I don't feel like it. You know? So when you're going through this, what are some of the lessons that you learned along the way? Was there anything that would that stuck out to you like, oh, man, I wish I had known this before?

Lori: Being patient, what you mentioned before that fear of missing out, you know, I had to it was hard not to chase after trades like wow, this one is, this would be a perfect one. But it had already taken off them just telling myself, hey, there's another one, just be patient look for the right criteria and stuff that meets the criteria. That I think was the hardest part from the psychology of it. And then what you helped was with trade management, right? How much I should put in a trade, you know, trying to help build up confidence. That was really hard, you know, because I went 30 years without really not making money to do and stuff. So trying to get the confidence, hey, that I can actually do this was a hard one as well, to kind of overcome.

Allen: You still having issues with that?

Lori: Oh, not as much. Now, now that I've seen some success.

Allen: Awesome because I know, I know, I dealt with it. And I know others, I've seen it with others to where, if it if they go a long time, without having too much success, you know, maybe they do a little bit in one year. And then they give it back and goes up and down. And then they finally find something that works really well. And they're doing it, they're doing it. And then there's this element of self sabotage, you know, where like, I remember doing this, like, I would have months where I would make make, make, make make, and then I just wouldn't pay attention. I'd be like, all the trades are fine, I'm not gonna worry about it. And I wouldn't even check in on them. And then the market would start getting, you know, crazy. And then boom, big loss. It's like, Oh, what happened? Oh, duh, I didn't pay attention, you know, that I kicked myself. And I'm like, Why do I do that? It's like, oh, it's confidence is all, you know, comes back to all confidence. Most of you know, trading is like 90% of trading is all mental. Yes. So that's a big realization that you have there. So what what were the big? What were the big realizations that you had? Like, what was the any aha moments?

Lori: The biggest, aha was my my mindset that, you know, I'm my own worst enemy, when it comes to trading? second guessing myself, especially after, you know, not getting anywhere for so long. You know, I'm thinking, Yeah, can I really do this, you know, maybe it's, you know, times gone, you know, maybe this isn't for me, you know, kind of giving up. But now, I've having a strategy, a structure, that was big for me, right, saying, Hey, this is, you know, and your stuff is so simple, you know, just, hey, look for it going in one direction over a period of time, you know, check the volatility, and hey, pick this delta and, you know, go ahead and put the trade so that you can get your 10% you know, you're not trying to shoot to, you know, make 300% in one trade, it is just keeping consistent over a long period of time. And that's big. Right? I don't I don't need that. 200% and, you know, two days kind of thing. I can do this over the long haul.

Allen: Yeah. I mean, that's part of it. Like sometimes people see it for the first time. And they're like, Wow, that's kind of too simple. But, I mean, you know, you look at it over and over again over the years. Yeah, but it's been working. And I think it's continues to do it. So do you have any the stuff that was holding you back originally? Do you think that that you've overcome those obstacles? Now?

Lori: They're still, I don't think I'll ever, you know, totally get over the mindset issues. That's just, I think, just human nature that, hey, we're gonna do well, we start getting a little overconfident or if we make a mistake, you know, you're going to be hesitant to kind of jump back in, but at least I'm aware of it now. And I can address it. So..

Allen: That's awesome. So where do you where do you see the future now, like you said, you know, next year you're looking at, it's gonna be a really good year, and then talk about further down the line - what do you think you're gonna be doing?

Lori: I think I will end up doing this full time.

Allen: Really? Okay.

Lori: We're trading you know, part time to get a full time.

Allen: Right. Right. Right.

Lori: In about 3 years, I'll be able to retire from my job. And then, you know, I can see it where I don't have to worry about, Okay I'm going to have to live on a lot less money. I'll have something here that I can just maintain or even get, have a better lifestyle than I've got now.

Allen: Nice. I love. I love hearing that. And then the fact that, you know, most people, they're like, oh, yeah, you know, I'm going to retire and then I'm going to move to the islands or somewhere. You're, you're already there. You're you're one step ahead of everybody else. Cool. Cool. Is there any any words of wisdom you would give to people who are you know, they're still maybe a little hesitant? They're like, No, no, is this? Is this stuff real? Is sounds too good to be true? What would you tell those type of people?

Lori: It is real. All you got to do is follow that path that you have laid out. You have made it so simple, and I am so grateful that I came across your program.

Allen: Cool. Okay, and then, so I still want to go back to your husband, like, I want him, I want to get him on board. I don't know how we're going to do that. But I want to, because I always bash financial planners a lot. You know, I mean, they they do a great job. But there's some bad ones. And there's something there -most of them are pretty good. And they're they want to help people, but the whole, their whole business model, it doesn't really work for, you know, people who want to do it themselves. If you don't want to worry about your money, you don't want to think about it or learn about it, then yeah, you give it to a financial planner, and you'll take good care of it. But if you..

Lori: That's the people he works with, he doesn't. He says, you know, he's run into people that are do it yourselfers and stuff. And he says, I can't help you there. That's just not his expertise. And so, but you know, he goes, Hey, if you get really good, maybe you can start managing people's money for him or, you know

Allen: Yeah. Yeah, we have a few students that have gone that route. So it's doable. But I do know that once those financial planners, when they start seeing it, and they start learning it for themselves, they go, they go nuts, they can't believe it, they're like, well, I'd really like Oh, my God, I didn't Why didn't I know about this earlier? Because they're not talking about it, you know, they're not taught about options and the way their commission structures work. And then they have their whatever the broker dealers or their their business setup, it's too hard to handle all the little options. So it's cool, cool, awesome. Okay, so I think we've already covered like, you know, what was the hardest part was the the mental aspect. Yeah, you're still working on the scaling? So in you're retiring in three years? I think you said, so you're gonna focus on trading a lot more. Do you feel that you have any special skills? Or that drew you to this? Or can anybody just anybody off the street do it?

Lori: I think anybody, if you if you can follow simple directions, you can do it. Yeah, it just takes a little bit of practice. And it's great, you know, doing, you know, start off with paper trading. That way you can get to get your confidence that really helped me is the paper trading because you make all your mistakes there. And it'll help you when you actually pull the trigger with real money.

Allen: So when do you think you'll feel that you're you're okay with adding some more money to the trading account? Have you thought about that?

Lori:  Ah, actually, I have not thought about that.

Allen: Okay.

Lori: I probably should.

Allen: I'm not, you know, that's up to you. I am not licensed to give you financial advise. Yeah, but like, you know, because when when you told me, because first, I had seen your, your trades, and then later on, you told me that hey, I, you know, I want to scale it. So I was like, Okay, sure. And you're like, Well, I'm stuck with this account. I thought you had already probably added more to it, because you had so much success earlier on.

Lori: I think maybe when I get more comfortable with the scaling that I will probably start adding more. But it still scares me. Right? Seeing the extra zero trying to go, you know, even when you said two to four, and you know, just okay and then I start to hang a little faster, so..

Allen: Well, yeah, then then you don't do it. You know, it's like, if you can't sleep at night, then yeah, it's not worth it. It's not worth it. And how much time do you does it take on your trading, how much time you spend?

Lori: Oh, it doesn't take very long at all, maybe 20 - 30 minutes at the most so in the morning before I go to work..

Allen: Okay.

Lori: ..and take a look. Either put some trades in or check what you know, how my existing trades are going to see if I have to manage any of those.

Allen: And that includes everything so managing researching.

Lori: Uh huh because because you walked us through on how to create a watch list. So I have my watch list and I just go through that you can easily find a couple of trades every day. And so just takes a few minutes to evaluate which one probably would be the best one that's going to get you your profit faster.

Allen: Okay, and you're saying you're doing about two a week or so average? Yeah. Okay, so yeah, so everyday, you don't even need to find trades. It's, yeah, it's just whenever you need. Awesome

Lori: So a lot of times, I'm just there trying to, you know, checking on my existing trades to, to see how they're doing. So, you know, that could be as quick as five minutes.

Allen: And you check in. So okay, so you're in Hawaii time, which is three or four hours behind me. So when you go to work, what time is it? Like the market is going to close in a couple hours already? Is that how it works?

Lori: The market closes? I think before lunchtime here in Hawaii.

Allen: Okay. So yeah, so just one time while you're going before you're going to work, that seems to be enough. Fun time. Okay. Cool. Yeah, yeah, we have some students a, you know, they, they get, they get, they wake up early, and then they'll check it before the market opens. And then they check it when the market opens. And then they check it, you know, during lunch, and then a couple of times during the day and like, yeah, you're going too crazy, you know, just you need to chill out, relax. Don't make it so stressful.

Lori: That's what I like about this system, I don't have to be on the computer all day watching where everything is going. So I can just 20-30 minutes a day at the most and I'm good.

Allen: What was it originally, that made you want to get into trading was there are a specific reason or a desire that you had or?

Lori: A lot of it is I wanted to be able to generate a full time income part time. I really didn't want to have to Okay, I got to keep getting up, you know, certain hours, do eight, nine hours a day come home and you know, then you got to take care of all the stuff around the house. You know, it's it's tedious after a while, so I wanted a little bit of more freedom more control of my time.

Allen: Okay, makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. Yep. Didn't get there. Maybe right? there didn't get there. But the future now he's bright, but you got there eventually. So now the future looks really bright. And now you'll have, you know, probably when you retire when you do retire, then you'll have plenty of extra money to go do whatever you want.

Lori: Like if my kids are interested, you know, they're tired of their jobs. And that's something I can pass on to. to them. That may be something they might want to. Yeah, you know, pursue.

Allen: Yeah, that would be I mean, could you imagine? It's like, yeah, you know, I learned a little late, but if you learn it now you can you can quit your job years ahead of time, right? That would be like the biggest best gift you could give. Like, forget College, I'm just gonna teach you this. Cool. Okay, any final words you want to share with our viewers?

Lori: She said, if, if I can do it, you know, after 30 years of struggling, you know, anybody can do it. You know, if you have the desire, and you're willing to follow the instructions, the rules, you can do it.

Allen: I'll say, most said, well, Laurie, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for your time. Appreciate your candor and being open about you know, the losses and sometimes people are a little bit you know, they try to they talk about the good stuff, but they don't really share all the all the hard stuff. But you're like, Yeah, you know, 30 years that sucked. And I know you know, you were a little shy, and I do appreciate you coming on you did you know, I'm sure this is going to help a lot of people, you know.

Lori: I sure hope so..

Allen: They're gonna listen, they're gonna see it and they're gonna be like, "Wow, I want to be like Lori". All right, appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

Lori: Thank you, Allen.




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